Saudi Spies at Twitter – 7 Nov 2019

This is Arab Talk on KPOO in San Francisco.
This is Arab Talk with Jess & Jamal. I’m Jess Ghannam. And this is Jamal Dajani.
– Jamal, we have a really exciting show today. We’re gonna be covering everything from cyber security
to Saudi Arabia to the general Middle East and probably end up on impeachment. So we got
a lot to talk about. But the biggest news that we’re going to start with today has to
do with the breaking news, just in the last 24 hours, in which Twitter announced that it
had essentially found out some three years ago that three Saudi nationals had infiltrated
Twitter, become employees and were spying for the Saudi kingdom, presumably for MBS
and were spying on alleged or so-called or potential critics of the Saudi government.
Apparently these two in particular here in San Francisco, one back in Saudi Arabia, Saudi
nationals were privy and had access to individual Twitter accounts and were able to locate names,
IP addresses and all sorts of personal information about people who were considered by the Saudi
government to be negatively inclined or writing negative stories. What’s even worse Jamal
about these two Twitter employees, they were paid hundreds of thousands of dollars by the
Saudi, by a Saudi middleman to infiltrate Twitter. And, in my mind, having Saudi spies
in San Francisco for one of the biggest Internet companies is really a big story.
– It’s also–this is Donald Trump’s favorite platform. His favorite medium.
– So here is the details about the story, Jess. Ali Alzabarah was an engineer
who rose through the ranks of Twitter toa job that gave him access to personal information
and account data, email, social media, you know, millions and millions of users.
That’s the number one a spy. The other one is Ahmad Abouammo, who was a media
partnership manager at the company who could also see the email addresses and phone numbers
of the Twitter accounts. So, yesterday the story, as you’ve mentioned is, uh,
breaking news, really. On Wednesday, the Justice Department accused the two men of using
their positions and their access to Twitter accounts and internal systems to aid Saudi
Arabia by obtaining information on American citizens, and Saudi descendants–
sorry, Saudi dissidents who oppose the policies of the kingdom and its leaders,
the two men, Alzabarah & Abouammo, were charged with acting as agents of a foreign power
inside the United States. And this is, by the way, the first complaint of its kind
involving Saudis in the country. So the case, of course, is the questions about security
at Twitter, Facebook, at these American technology companies who are under scrutiny for spreading
disinformation and influencing public opinions, showing that these firms can be penetrated
from within and are vulnerable. I mean, I mean, the Saudis is the latest
example. We have issues also with Israeli agents. We have issues with the Chinese and
with the Russians. Right? Right. So so this one. So So again, this underscored the broad
effort that the Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman, otherwise known as MBS of Saudi
Arabia, and his close advisers have conducted all these operations to silence critics both
inside the kingdom and abroad. And this also comes– It’s kind of coincides with what happened
to the journalist Jamal Khashoggi, who worked for The Washington Post.
We know his story, we’ve discussed his story and his murder last year by Saudi agents in
Istanbul. And, you know, Khashoggi, of course, had a Twitter account, had a lot of followers,
So a lot of his information, his movement, et cetera, was always posted on Twitter. So
what’s the connection also with having access not just the public access, but also his phone
number, for example. Rightly. Could you crack up, track him on by cell phone? Most people
use their cell phones for Twitter accounts. It’s set it up, and at the same time we know
for a fact this is just the internal. So this is the internal complaint component just off
the story. Then we know for a fact that weather. I mean, it’s all the Asians and bots had ass
critics on Twitter all the time on Facebook. It’s by the way Twitter has risen. Toby, the,
uh, you know, very popular platform in Saudi Arabia since the Arab spring uprisings began
in 2010. And now we’re finding about this now. This is 2019 just to be clear. Both Mr
Al Zubara and Mr Bond More left Twitter in 2015. Well, this is a part of the story that
I think we should focus on a little bit. Jamal. The fact that and I think it’s a bit of a
Ljuba, was confronted in 2015 by his supervisors at Twitter. In other words, he was caught.
He left work that day. The next day, Jamal, he was on a one way flight to Riyadh in Saudi
Arabia. So there’s so many components to this story that are damaging. If Twitter knew,
why didn’t they say anything? If this was going on for the extent that it did, why did
it take four years? What has been, you know, because the Hachioji murder just happened
a year ago? Jamal and these guys were instrumentalists far back as 2015? Well, actually, even earlier
2040. And because, according to communications between Twitter employees, right, this started
in 2014 and also just tow mention. In addition to all the bar and a bar. More federal prosecutors
charge Ahmad on military. Yeah, he’s the third who previously ran a social media marketing
company that did work directly for the Saudi royal family. I think he was the one that
was paying these guy. He and Mr Obata are Saudi citizens, and Mr Abu Ammo is an American
citizen, according to the complaint filed by prosecutors and by there was a story that
that there were suspected that the Twitter or investigators at Twitter had suspicion
about activities off these two employees. This story was initially kind of the some
details about the investigation was reported, uh, on The Washington Post and that kind of
it’s a flu below radar. Obviously, it flew as it was in the big story. Nevertheless,
Now we have an investigation. So, according to court documents, the Saudi official who
developed with the Twitter employees guess what, Jess? He was secretary general off a
share it hable organization owned by a member off these or the royal family, of course,
so that that description pointed to the MISC Foundation in My Escape Foundation, a technology
focused non profit organization founded by Prince Mohammed. MISC is also led by better
Lhasa. A Sacher who’s vital is secretary general, A person familiar with the case that Mr Massacre
is the foreign official who reached out to the Twitter employees reached out outside,
recruited, recruited basically those Twitter employees. So it runs very deep and very deep
in the royal family itself and m b s er well, I wouldn’t be fair to say, Jamal, that this
is part of a consistent pattern of the royal family and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, silencing
its critics, undermine, undermine its critics and tragically, in one case, assassinating,
murdering and killing one of its foremost correct, which really damaging about this
story, which we think is important to follow here on Arab talk is the fact that they co
opted an American San Francisco based Internet company that has international reach. And,
as you said in the beginning, is the medium of choice for the president of the United
States. It doesn’t stop a twitter, Jamal. You know the check. Check this out just so
Mr Obama. Well, uh, he arose suspicion because he was checking out user’s emails for numbers.
According to the complaint, he later got the email addresses and phone numbers off others
or the critics. He was like targeting. So the critics, according to the complaint and
then when he came under scrutiny. He left the country with Saudi Arabia. The Saudi government
compensated Mr Obama for his work in a series off wire transfers to him and two other members
of his family. And so he created a phony or shadow. Whatever you wanna call the Shell
company. Shell Company Limited liability company. Very smart guy. L L C, I guess. But what?
He’s not telling him where he received $300,000 from the Saudi government, Right? And t just
scratch a little bit more on that story, Jamal. He received $300,000. He created fake invoices
for fake work that he did to kind of circumvent with the IRS. But the point being, this is
a huge, um uh, expose, if you will and huge, uh, kind of attack on the sovereignty of the
US based Internet companies to service its clients. It basically means that there are
probably not just that Facebook, but Facebook, Google, Twitter. There are probably paid agents.
It wouldn’t be unreasonable to conclude, Jamal that there are paid agents of multiple countries
working at these agencies and potentially creating these security risk. I think this
is a huge story. Of course, it’s It’s just we can talk about it for the entire hour.
Of course, we’re not gonna talk about for an entire hour, but there are also more details.
Yes, I just liketo our listeners and our viewers to be aware off. I mean, it didn’t stop there.
Right? So this guy, Mr Obama, comes back now after he went to Saudi Arabia, kind off. Hey
was suspect with her. Couldn’t kind of, like, point the finger directly at him. They were
very suspicious. Off his activities. Goes back to Saudi Arabia, is compensated, comes
back. And where does he turn in Facebook? Amazon, Amazon. He comes back to Seattle,
and this is very important. I tell you why. Because connected. That’s with Jeff. Baseball’s
right latest scandal for extramarital affairs, you know. So So he moves to Seattle for the
marketing job at Amazon. Leaves the company after one year. This is according to an Amazon
spokesman, when an FBI agent interviewed him in 2018 he lies to the light of the Asian
and produced Fourth documents the complaints of like he’s never been there. And the reason
I mention this because of the Amazon thing, then Josiah. This older article, Jeff Bezos
owns The Washington Post. Let’s let’s keep that in mind. Jamal Khashoggi worked for The
Washington Post, so we’re connecting the dots. So eso Jeff Bezos and this this goes back
to March off this year. Jess, right? And the security chief off for Jeff Bezos, chief executive
off Amazon, said that the Saudi government had access to bases phone and gained private
information from it. I mean, is that a coincidence? All of a sudden now, someone who was spying
hey, was, Ah, a plant at Twitter Embedded leaves goes, goes to Seattle, is now connected
with Amazon. And then a couple of years later, we have now an announcement by by Amazons
chief security officer saying that the Saudis hacked Amazon Amazons boss Jeff Business for
me and then Andi, this is This is the guy’s name. His name is Gavin. The Becker Bases
longtime security consultant said that he had concluded his investigation into the publication
in January off this year off leak text messages between bases and Lauren Sanchez, a former
television anchor whom the U. S National Enquirer tabloid newspaper said bases was dating. This
is like this is at the time. You know, shortly before their publications, business had become
the subject of tabloid stories after he and his wife, MacKenzie, unless they were divorcing
in all of Southern. These pictures make their way to the tabloids, The Enquirer so and these
pictures were on his personal phone. Okay, can I just Ah, I want to add a few things
as long as we’re doing the deep dive. Why would the Saudis come after Jeff Bezos? One
of the reasons the Saudis would come after Jeff Bezos is because he owns the Washington
Post and The Washington Post was doing its own investigation of the murder of Jamal Koji
and were highly critical of M. B s highly critical of the Trump administration’s relationship
with Saudi Arabia and M. B s. So the post itself was doing its investigative reporting
to expose this This this kind of, um, behavior of the Saudis infiltrating on influencing
major Internet companies. There is, however, another issue, Jamal, that we need to add
before you get to that. I just want to give our listeners the court because you’re absolutely
correct. And these are the words coming out of the mouth off the Becker Who’s the Jeff
Bases security consultant. This is what he said, courting. Some Americans will be surprised
to learn that the Saudi government has bean very intent on harming Jeff Base or since
last October, when the pores began its relentless coverage off charges murder. That’s right.
So he says that this is the security consultant who investigated this. And of course, we know
that the C I. A. Has concluded that just murder was probably ordered by the powerful crown
prince NBS Mohammed bin Salman. And then it goes on. Of course, the Saudi Arabia denies
this, right? They say, despite the faults and absence, unsubstantiated claims off Mr
Becker, American media has and continues to refute bubble of a block. This is coming from
this. So there’s a day to see of these pictures. Well, there’s another story here, Jamal, which
we need to let our listeners know about. Saudi Arabia, as it turns out, had purchased among
the most secretive hacking software from an Israeli firm, Black Cube. That was the only
ah, software that was able to monitor crack and decrypt whatsapp messages, and lo and
behold, when Black Cube sold this to a number of states. They know and knew that they were
selling this to bad actor states who were using it to spy and ultimately harm and in
some cases, kill opposition leaders. So there’s another angle to this. Of course, the Israelis
are involved in this. The Israeli sold the software to the Saudis who used that software
to come after Jamal Cash. Oh ji. And I’m just speculating, Jamal, so I have no proof for
this. None whatsoever. But there may be a link to how the Saudis were ableto also crack
Jeff Bezos’s phone. Now Jeff Bezos is the second wealthiest, if not the wealthiest person
in the world. Depending on Amazon stock, he has the highest security for to be cracked
and to be hacked in this way, it’s kind of a big deal. It is a big deal, and then it
also goes deeper into this just because before this, Amazon and Saudi Arabia looked like
the perfect partners. I mean, look at it, just go back to 2018 year before both had
ambitions to become the most prominent players in the global economy, the world’s biggest
store and the world’s second biggest oil producer moved aggressively in the past few years towards
a $1 billion deal. Toe build Amazon data centers in Saudi Arabia Hoops, hoops. And there was
supposed to have our supposed to happen. A major conference announced this partnership
between M. B s and Jeff Bezos. So guess who was no show. Well, Jeff Bezos completely shut
it down. So So this is the crazy thing about it, because off this whole thing, I mean,
they screwed up big time. So they’re a B and B s by killing Jamal Khashoggi kind of flak.
And, of course, Jeff basis owns The Washington Post and for the Washington Post toe aggressively
pursue the story a story. They had a $1 billion. Just This is actually the seed money, right
deal. And not only this, but also Amazon. I was supposed to have its Cloud Service’s
servers, servers and whatever, and also another deal right to make it access to provide access
to, you know, the Saudi government. They cancel that deal as well. Yeah, well, I think this
should help our listeners understand the broad reach of how other countries infiltrate. Ah,
the United States Infiltrate digital companies infiltrate what are supposed to be, you know,
secure communications, whether it’s Facebook, which is not secure. Twitter, which clearly
is not secure. And other media. Jamal way this is, You know, this dovetails on what
happened during the 2016 and the Russian Influence campaign and bought campaign using Facebook
and Twitter to influence the elections of 2016. So the take home message is it’s not
just Russia. Saudi Arabia is a big player. And then behind the scenes selling the software,
we have to look at the Israelis. This story, Jamal is going by there with software and
the Israelis and Black Cube. You also can connect it to the Epstein and, you know, you
could connect it to Weinstein. They were used to spy on intimidate right accusers, Same
same same connection in a way, in a different way. But like I said, this is I mean, the
more you read about it, I’ve been like reading about it for the past three days. It gets
worse, gets worse, because first, you know, you see the cash or G connection. See the
Twitter connection. You see the work at Amazon. You see, the partnership between the Kingdom
and Amazon, which would have looked like I said everybody was like drooling over this
deal. They were gonna give them access to their cloud service is they were going to
give them access, basically start setting up against many Amazon servers, centers, centers,
right in Saudi Arabia. And this all got jeopardy is jeopardized because off the murder of Cash,
Auggie. And then they turned their attention to Jeff basis. I mean, this is like I would
say, you know, of course, this is like at the state level, but it’s almost also like
the Mafia because they were shaking. Jeff Bezos basically were blackmailing him. They
were trying to blackmail. You’re gonna pursue cash, Oggi. We’re gonna put all these e mails
and pictures off you and your lover, you know, and publish them on the National Enquirer.
Well, I have to give base. Oh, some credit. Even though he’s a very problematic figure,
he refused to be extorted. He refused to be shaken down. Those pictures and those e mails
were in fact, published in the National Enquirer. And they were published, you know, in other
places, the Washington Post never backed down, Jeff Bezos never back down. So, you know,
credit where credit is due. You know, Saudi Arabia, Jamal, Just I want to just change
it just a small bit. Was also in the news this week. The United States Congress, you
know, both the Senate and the House passed a resolution saying that they didn’t want
any more U. S. Military assistance going to Saudi Arabia for the complete and utter destruction
of Yemen. So last week, we found out that there was a secret shipment of military U.
S. Military arms again to Saudi Arabia to help service the brutal, catastrophic murder
of ah, of people in Yemen and the destruction of infrastructure in Yemen. This story got
nowhere, Jamal. No one is reporting this story. No one’s talking about the story that the
Trump Administration continues to fly in the face of the house. And let’s just say Jamal,
Democrats and Republicans both saying, we don’t want you to send arms to Saudi Arabia
anymore. And guess where the U. S. Was sending arms last week in a secret flight to Saudi
Arabia. All these weaponry to continue this kind of human disaster, this kind of utterly
disastrous catastrophic murder and destruction in Yemen. It’s still going on. Well, I mean,
look, it’s very clear. Donald Trump made it very clear that he is not gonna throw so that
area under the boss. No. Even during the height of the investigation, he denied it. He’s not
going to stop partnering with Saudi Arabia after all. When he went toe visits for the
Arabia, he came back with billions of dollars. Saudi Arabia is a strategic partner, so they
Arabia spends hundreds of millions of dollars buying weapons from the United States. Saudi
Arabia has oil. And now, as I am called, by the way I peer course going public and I guarantee
you U S companies and investors are going toe pour millions of dollars, billions, billions
of dollars there. So it’s very clear, like, to me, it’s the parallel off to Israel. They
cannot do anything wrong. I mean, the try toe and Oh, and by the way, it’s not like
Donald. Donald Trump loves the Washington Post and Jeff Bezos. So So why go? Why go
against them? And they are trying to destroy his enemy, Jeff Bezos, and destroyed the Washington
boss all because I mean, do you think Donald Trump cares about the human human rights and
the violations? And what’s happening to the people in Yemen? No, I mean, Donald Trump
was actively critical of Jeff Bezos, actively critical of Amazon. Tried on many occasions.
We forget about this toe, undermine some of the business dealings of Amazon, completely
trashed on Twitter, The Washington Post on multiple occasions. So all of these will what
seem to be strange bedfellows are really are really just street strategic individual partnerships,
not among states. Jamal. We’re talking about individual relationships between Donald Trump,
M. B s and and some of these other actors. You’re listening toe Arab talk on Gay P or
San Francisco 89.5 FM, and I would also welcome our viewers on Facebook live. Which brings
me to the subject to Facebook, because I think this is also this. It’s connected the influence
off foreign powers. Not only governments we’ve seen, like I just tell you one thing, like
on Facebook, Facebook throttles. Any information about Palestine? Don’t get me started. This
is doing that for years is I can say I’m on my witness off this because I’m not eyewitness.
I actually experienced your your target. So whenever we have, and then the other thing,
why I’m making this connection? Because Facebook took down a video that I posted about this
sore the clown. That’s what I said described him, which is, you know, the one in Jerusalem
they want who went on a propaganda tour to Jerusalem dry and irritated the people there.
And they were really angry, angered by him by his presence there. And it had actually
over 20 tow 1,000,000 views on Facebook. And then Facebook took it down, and one that I
can guarantee you it wasn’t a complaint that they received by one person or two people
from Saudi Arabia. It had the writing off the Saudi government, of course, the Saudi
government. And that’s how they succumb. So the pressure’s by They succumbed to the pressures
by Israel. We know that for a fact, because they’ve targeted also, like I said, Palestinian
sides now. So the soldiers complain about something. They also succumb to them and also
on Twitter itself. Recently they shut down all codes. It’s a news aside from Jerusalem,
how could I not Alcatel out of each other boats Alcott’s news. Yeah, it is a magical
about it. You could find an article about it on Elektronik into Father, but basically
this I think they had at least over 1,000,000 followers provided real time coverage off
what’s going on on the ground. And then they just boom shot. It’s account totally took
it down. And then who would do you think complaint about it? Well, absolutely. Jamal, we know
who complained about it. The government of Israel complained about it, just like M. B
s directly calls, you know, to Mark Zuckerberg and says, We want you to shut down this video
that’s getting 22 million, you know, hits about a critic of Saudi Arabia. I mean, let’s
be really these giant Internet firms are willing to sell their souls, if not the personal data
of their subscribers, to any state actor. And they it’s been demonstrated time and time
again that they I mean, when you see Mark Zuckerberg going to Congress and going to
D. C and saying that he really cares about privacy and protection of individual users,
nobody believes you anymore, Mark. No one believes that Facebook is there too save and
secure and take care of its individual subscribers. It’s clear that it’s a voted admitted that
they have actually ah had been hacked and the information about subscribers, right?
Millions off them. But they just admitted yesterday, Or at least there was an expose
yesterday, Jamal, that said that Facebook was giving away private user data to the highest
bidder. Unfortunately, this comes back to Amazon that Amazon was actually paying and
having access to private user data on Facebook for a price. So basically contrary to what
Mark Zuckerberg has been saying and Cheryl Sandburg has been saying, your private data
from Facebook is for sale to the highest bidder. And you know, if you believe otherwise, you’re
living in a fantasy world to think that your Facebook account, your Twitter account, your
whatsapp account, your instagram account, whatever your social digital media is for
sale guaranteed. You’re listening to Arab talk here on K p O in San Francisco, 89.5
FM. This is Arab talk with Justin. Jamal were broadcasting on Facebook live and Jamal just
to bring it home. They have throttled Arab talk on Facebook live too. They did. It did
so. I mean, we might as well call it what it is. We have been throttled on multiple
occasions from the distribution of Arab talk on Facebook. Life will continue to air this.
The story will continue to follow all the story about how bad state actors are using
these social media giants to target their opponents. So, um, but anyways, we’re gonna
follow this story. Absolutely. I mean, we have to follow it. And this thread to the
murder of Jamal Ca Shoji is it has ripple effects through. We’re gonna get more information.
We were just like, really, You just gotta keep digging deeper into it. And then you’ll
find more and more information, just like we’re finding out even more information after
the death off Epstein. Just like, you know, a couple of days ago we had new new revelations
about Oh, that’s right. Yeah, about him. So it’s it’s not going to go away. Well, a few
stories I’ve been following, just we’re shifting gear way, domestic or international, domestic
and international. But I think I thought this was very interesting because, you know, we
discussed this about Ilhan Omar and received klehb and how especially a sheet of play was
denied entry. Not trying. Is there? All right? You want to take with her a congressional
delegation to Palestine? Palestine to see Toe, have them. Eyewitness, What’s going on?
And come back and report. So the rest off Congress. Well, guess what? There was another
delegation and this delegation. I don’t know who sponsored. Could have been a pack or somebody
else. I have to dig deeper or could be another organization, which excluded, Of course. I
see that live, Dylan. Oh, my had Homer and others and has other representatives. And
one of the representatives who waas on this trip is representative and the 11 from your
home state of Michigan. Michigan. Yes. So he was there, and he got to meet with Israeli
officials and wanted to go to also to see it with his own eyes. What’s going on in the
West Bank? He didn’t go to Gaza. What? He managed to go to the West Man, so he started
his reporting on this through Twitter. See, this is this is how powerful Twitter is. Just
what I mean. You know, like everyone uses twitter from the President of the United States
toe to members of Congress tow your letters and so forth. And he started to report on
it and the And then he started with this tweet. And of course you know, and 11 his also worth
mentioning that he is also Jewish. American Congressman, right? And then his first week
said yesterday I traveled to the southern West Bank, including the Palestinian village
off sushi A which I’ve been there many fires which the Israeli government has destroyed
twice and currently denies access to water. Wait, This is from this is from Congressman
Levin. Levin is tweeting about this. Yeah. And so well, bombshell, The Israeli government
likes to have you come to this husband a tour is and go back and say Israel is the only
democracy in the Middle East, right? They have the most moral army. And this congressman,
he goes. He started his trip by being neutral. Really? Just like like let me see what’s going
on with my own eyes. That was his first week. And then you should see the storm that followed
on Twitter. You know, you could actually look at it if you go to his Twitter page. It’s
at Rep. And the 11 and you go, you go to that weed and then he goes on. He says, When people
started, like replying to me, said Yet we watch the government utility right before
our eyes. Lillian pipes right across the villages land to deliver tap water to an illegal Israeli
outpost nearby. Representative Levin said that, Yeah, he’s going in this today ago.
Then he goes on, Wow, they’re basically got shutting off water on a Palestinian village,
destroying it for the second time running water if we, I mean, he doesn’t didn’t use
the word apartheid. Well, he does is this is the part. They’re destroying the village.
They’re basically cutting off water on it and they’re running water lines. Tow an illegal
settlement. He doesn’t stop there. And then he goes on. It was simply incredible. As angry
as the situation made me the resilient off the Palestinian valley, villagers left an
even stronger impression. Wow. So those three tweets and again I mean, this is someone who
was allowed in. His Jewish American is Jewish American Congressman. He’s from the same state
off Michigan, Michigan, which is the same state off who was denied because of her, her
Palestinian roots to visit her grandmother, but he was allowed in and he’s so with his
own eyes, the atrocities. And I’m so proud of him that he came back and just said it
the way it is. That’s impression. And so kind of, like, blew off this whole facade that
Israel Prize to create by inviting these congressmen and congresswomen on these paid trips to go
back and report to say that Israel is the victim and they’re just fantastic. Let me
ask you to Mom caress Did the husband a machine? Do you have any of the tweets from the Israeli
husband machine? Yeah, because you can go toe. But actually he had a lot of support.
I mean, I can go there and say Thank you for sharing the truth. People are saying, you
know, from all over the country thank you for going to Palestine. It’s really good that
you were witnessing what you have. Etcetera, etcetera, etcetera. And but also he created
this internal storm within a pack that you know, on even J Street. Because yesterday
it also had recently conference right. And even though they came for the very first time
J street, they they did not follow the rules. They had people like, you know, like instead
of just saying we need to support Israel, Had people during the confidence say that
we should hold Israel accountable. Accountable. Right. And also we’ve heard now from Bernie
Sanders saying that we must, you know, if it continues on this path, maybe we should
cut it to Israel and pass some off this ed to the starving people in Gaza. I’m phrasing.
So there has. There is a major shift. I would say No, I think age of shift with then the
Democratic Party. Well, some parts of the Democrats some parts in some parts, but that
I think it cannot be ignored. And I know you have someone like, you know, very credible
person, like and and 11 go there, See with his own eyes, reports the truth, is not afraid.
This is the thing. He was not afraid to tell the truth, to tell the truth, right? And did
not care about retaliation by a pack because a pack is the organization behind your muzzling
the truth and anyone who kind of we know that, you know, just read Congressman’s Finley’s
book, right? Former his deceased. Now Congressman Findley wrote a book called They They They
have to Speak rightly There to speak. And he documented this way back. I think in the
eighties, yeah, I was in the house. It was this book, but basically talking about the
power of a pack that when he himself who was very neutral inside to talk, say the truth
about what’s happening in Palestine and question us A. You got voted out. He got kicked out
basically. So listen to stories really quick. We’ll come back to this one. It’s not fair
to say the Democratic Party has shifted Jamal. Some elements of the Democratic Party have
shifted. The more progressive wing of the Democratic Party has shifted, and that has
trickled down to Bernie Sanders. And now I would say to Elizabeth Warren, who are able
to say things like, We need to hold Israel accountable, things like that. But we’re not
quite there yet to say the broader Democratic Party, because you still have the Clinton
wing of the Democratic Party, which includes Joe Biden, who are very much you know, haven’t
changed when it comes to their unflagging, uncritical, unaccountable support for Israel.
so we’ll come back to that in a minute. Yeah, but these were taboo subjects and red lines
that are getting crossed. Yeah, but I’m in time again. We remember what happened last
time in the 2016 election, when the question when when? When On the Democratic convention
job. All where so many people were shut down because of the resolution they wanted to pass
to basically criticize Israel and try to hold them accountable. We’ll see what happens in
2020. Speaking of Israel and American citizens, Jamal, we need to mention the story of Omar
Shocker. Omar. Shocker is, uh I think he’s the area representative for Human Rights Watch.
They have an office in the occupied in occupied Palestine. Omar Shaka is a maternity. He works
for Human Rights Watch. They’re the ones that document human rights violations. And just
to be fair, Jamal, they document human rights violations either by the Israelis or the Palestinian
Authority. So they’re they’re They’re pretty much an equal opportunity Ngo. That’s right.
Omar Shocker has gotten a tremendous amount of respect and prestige all over the world.
Because of his work in occupied Palestine. The Israelis were looking for a way, as you
know, to get him removed from his job at Human Rights Watch. So what did they do? They dug
up some tweets from 2007 maybe a little bit later, maybe a few years after that, where
he was saying things about holding Israel accountable and using BDS as a way to hold
Israel accountable because it’s non violent. It’s political so on and so forth. Well, guess
what? Using the new law, the Israeli government decided to see if they could ban Omar, shocker
an American citizen with a legitimate work visa and banned him and basically deport him
well. On Tuesday, just the Israeli Supreme Court ordered Human Rights Watch basically
a very representative, by the way, almost ready to leave the country within a maximum
off 20 days. So he has been notified since Tuesday that he had twisty days. He’s deported
to leave the cover. They told him on Tuesday he had 20 days believe, And then what happened?
What did happen? Well, I mean, they put an order of deportation. No, that’s what I mean.
There are going to deport him. They are. This went up to the Supreme court. So this is the
Israeli Supreme Court. Omer shocker had great Israeli attorneys actually trying to defend
his right to remain on a legitimate, valid work visa. You know, working in occupied Palestine,
that Human Rights Watch has an office. I believe they have an office in Tel Aviv as well as
in Ramallah. Jim, all the point being is that this was working its way up through the Israeli
judicial system. It finally got to the Supreme Court and the Supreme Court and said You can
actually deport this person despite his legal right to be here. Well, the man accusation,
they be supportive. Exactly. They said that that he had been active for years in the bds
move, which is not true and actively supported boycotting Israel. That’s kind of you. But
you know what they actually said, Jamal. They said he was one of the international leaders
of the BDS movement, which is complete rubbish, A complete fabrication. This is the accusation
that the Israeli government levels against all of the supporters. If what the Israelis
air saying is accurate, then there must be millions of leaders of BDS movement. Because
Omar Shocker was really no different than any other person of conscience who believed
in non violent confrontation of Israeli apartheid and believed, just like they did in South
Africa, that you could use bds toe help hold the Israeli government accountable for its
human rights violations. But Jamal, that happened. These tweets are over 10 years old. Well,
I mean, regardless, I mean, this is the thing is, you know, Israel and its supporters, they
have to kind of make up their mind. Is Israeli democracy or it’s not? Well, I mean, if you’re
deporting people because of something they said 10 years old tweeted there 10 years ago
or they don’t agree with the military occupation off Israel off the West Bank and inhuman siege
off Gaza, then you are. You cannot not on Lee. You cannot enter the country for many
off. You’re going to get deported, or you’re gonna get the porter where you won’t be allowed
to come in. Exactly. So this is even even if you read the Israeli media and not all
of it stay away from I would say the Sheldon Adelson media. Right. You know, you’ll find
a lot of debate people Israelis contesting and saying This is ridiculous. This is if
you’re gonna start kicking out off the country. Human rights organizations getting rid off.
Israel does not want O’Nora. They don’t want to the United Nations refugee. But Human Rights
Watch. They don’t want Human rights Watch. They don’t want uh, yuh like c p c p g j committee
to protect journalists. Basically right. They don’t want anyone to keep a tab on its violations.
International law violations what good it is. I mean, who else do they want to keep?
Well, I hope country, I hope. And 11 is listening to Arab talk tomorrow because when I’m hoping
Congressman and 11 from my home state of Michigan, the great state of Michigan will dio is continue
trick tweeting the truth number one. But I hope he takes another trip, too. Occupied
Palestine goes to the ghost of the West Bank, goes see if he can get into Gaza because his
voice well will be able to be heard in ways that Ilhan Omar’s will Not well, she did tell
Aimes will just any decent human being that I have spoken to what I have met by coincidence,
who’s been there? Who has been there and went there even with with the whole wrong impression
or even a neutral impression. And so the truth with his own eyes. They came to the same conclusion
to come to the same always. They never will cry. And then And this is what Israel is afraid
off. Israel does not want tohave any person with strong moral convictions, any person
who respects human rights and dignity the visit the West Bank and see with his or her
own eyes the facts on the ground that they themselves even from within, I say from within
the Israeli society. Some of them are saying enough Well, we’re seeing the effects of the
okay, but But the Israeli government doesn’t care about Israeli citizens living. You know,
they want the matter gets right here in the United States exactly to keep writing, to
keep forcing and coursing the U. S. Taxpayer to keep writing that check Exactly all what
they care about. So, by the way, Jamal, what we’re seeing this is the real reason why people
are rebelling against Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Because Elizabeth Warren stance on
Palestine is maybe not as not as strong as Bernie Sanders, but it’s very, very strong,
has been shifting. It’s been shifting, you know, evolving. Evolving to her credit. Is
it a surprise that everybody is now attacking Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders? They
want the establishment because Joe Biden No, your by them and I’m not making yet. We’re
not gonna. This is Arab talk. We don’t make endorsements on the air, but don’t say it.
We can’t we can’t endure. But I’m just telling you, Joe Biden, his record on Israel is tell
him not visible on Palestinian human. Right? Terrible. It’s terrible. No, you just look
at every statement that he said, And every, you know, he bragged about being a basically
a Zionist. I mean, he just said that you don’t have to be. Do you wish to be assigned Zionist
like it was? Probably. You want size and designers basically and support the occupation, support
oppression and then play this smokes and smoke and mirrors and pray. We support the two state
solution, which he doesn’t. This is no he does you that support. But the Israeli view
of the two states were there on exactly Netanyahu’s interpretation. The apartheid solution off
that and But here’s the problem compatible. Here’s the problem. The Democratic, the Israeli
Ah, a pack and the Israeli surrogates here and their bots and their social media operation
and their husband machine. They did this in 2008. They did it in 2012. There did it in
2016. They will divide the Democratic Party on this question because they don’t care.
They don’t care of the Democratic Party, implodes, implores as long as they have someone in the
White House will support 100%. So then Donald Trump is that man? Of course. That’s what
I’m saying, German. I’m sorry. We’re gonna end this show with my ongoing prediction.
Unfortunately, which is turning out to be true and sure that Donald Trump is gonna win.
I’m gonna challenge on this and say he’s not Okay, so let’s make the $1 bet we can’t better
amount of money. But what? I’m coffee bat one coffee, but that you’re saying Donald
Trump is going to win, and I say I don’t think so, Okay. And I’m not breaking news here from
Arab Doc. We thank you for joining us here on Arab talk on K p o 89.5 FM here in beautiful
San Francisco were also streaming live on Facebook. Live at Jamal Dajani, too. You can
get Oliver shows all of our podcasts at Arab talk radio dot com, and we’ll see you next
week. See you next week.

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